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Welcome

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to Son Cuatro, In Conversation. This series is presented by Riverside Art Museum, a.k.a. RAMM. It's leading up to the opening of the Cheech Marin Center for Chicano Art and Culture, aka the Cheech. I'm Melissa Richardson-Banks, and today there are four of us in conversation with artist Sonia Fane. Todd Wingate, who's the Director of Exhibitions and Collections at Riverside Art Museum. Norma Chavez-Hartel, who's a curator at Las Cruces Museum of Art. And of course, Cheech Marin, entertainer, filmmaker, comedian, friend, art collector, art advocate, champion. Now, before we start, some of you know already that I've worked with Cheech for about half of his 40 years of collecting Chicano art and championing Chicano artists. And it's because of him that I became a collector myself. Margaret Garcia reminded us recently that she's the one who introduced Cheech to Sonia. So Sonia emailed me samples of her work and I shared them with Cheech and he ultimately purchased six artworks from her. And she and I conversed for probably a good year, I guess. And we had some books that I wanted to give her. And so we ended up arranging to meet in a parking lot in Eagle Rock, California. And it was just so great because I gave her copies of her catalog. And of course, in pure Sonia Faye style, she's like, oh, I got some other things to show you. So she opened up the trunk of her car and she showed me all these different artworks. She's industrious. I think my father would have called her a fellow hustler like me. That was his affectionate nickname for me. And she's confident, she's creative, she's talented. And we're so excited to have her here today. I'm going to hand this over to Todd. Todd, tell us a little bit about Sonia.

SPEAKER_04: 1:49

Absolutely. Thank you. So Sonia shares that she grew up drawing with chalk and crayons on the cement floor of her family's East Los Angeles home, an activity that her seven siblings, her Jewish American mother, and her Mexican American father fully encouraged. Each night, a new masterpiece was created and then mopped clean by her mother. At 13, Sonia won her first art scholarship to attend a summer program at Otis Art Institute in LA. She then went on to receive a Bachelor of Arts at Art Center College of Design in Pasadena. Her beautifully executed painting often focus on the plight of women and children during the pandemic to protest the horrible treatment of migrant children being locked in cages. Sonia created eight large-scale murals in Las Cruces, New Mexico, each 50 feet long, to document this travesty. You can view these online at www.soniafe.com. Let's see. Sonia's work has been exhibited in museums and galleries throughout California, across the nation, and in Mexico and Japan. Her solo exhibition, Are You With Me?, is on view now now through July 24th at the Las Cruces Museum of Art in New Mexico. Previously, she's had solo exhibitions at the Morris Grave Museum in Eureka, California. Her work can be found in numerous private and public collections, including Cheech's, the CCH Pounder Collection, the Carnegie Art Museum in Oxnard, and most notably the Smithsonian American Art Museum in Washington, D.C. Sonia's taught at the College of the Redwoods in Humboldt County, California. She's published children's stories and a drawing book in his the co-founder of Publishing Children's Stories, a program for elementary schools that integrates literacy, art, and technology. Sonia is also the art editor and a writer for Joaquin Magazine, a California-based publication, and she's been published in numerous and other magazines. So my first question is for Cheech. Cheech, what attracted you originally to Sonia's work, and what led to your acquisition of the La Llorona series?

SPEAKER_03: 3:47

I was always in search of what the real story of La Llorona, what was the real story about it? Because all I ever saw was a picture of La Llorona, Lloroning, you know, just crying. And it's always a scary face. And there was kids and there was a river, you know, but every major artist, well, not everyone, but many major artists, Chicano artists that I first met had done a painting of La Llorona, Carlos Almaraz, Frank Romero, a lot of different people. And so, and they had a different version of it. But nobody ever gave me the You know, like, how did she get here? What about the kids? And where are they going now? And so finally, I was shown, I think it was five or six panels, six panels by Sonia, in which she told the whole story of La Llorona. And I was really grateful for that because, oh, cool. Now I know the whole story. What really intrigued me was how well they were done. Remarkable drawings. You do a lot like a great La Llorona and people know who you are. And these are the best I had seen by far. And they were like, just scary. Walt Disney always said that there was two emotions you couldn't fake, laughter and fear. And so when you saw these, like, these are scary and you can see what this woman has gone through. And when you come and see this, you'll see the whole picture. But what really intrigued me was how well they were done, how well they were painted and drawn. And I said, this is a remarkable talent here. And so I started getting in touch with Sonia. And it was a long conversation over a long period of time. I'm a working actor. I have to be working in order to collect art. So I was trying to gather enough money to get all of these. And I think I bought them like a couple here or one here, then a book till I had the whole set. But the remarkable pieces, I mean, it's really remarkable. And so I started looking at some of Sonia's other work, which are equally as remarkable. And she has a real facility painting, but real facility for telling a story. And that really attracted my attention. So I started And I found out that she had a bunch of friends because she's been in the Chicano art from OG times, you know. The paintings were remarkable. I mean, really, really remarkable. When I finally met Sonia, as a remarkable personality as well, it was really, really alive and interested and engaging and funny, very funny. So what are you working on now?

SPEAKER_00: 6:16

Okay, the murals I was working on, there was eight of them, 50 feet each. And the reason why I did it, I wasn't gonna worry about money and people's permission. I just went out there and I was free. I said, I'm gonna put what I want up there because they told me don't be political. So I said, how can I be political without them knowing it, okay? But what I did was I did my first mural. I was so upset with the children being thrown in cages. And then, okay, and then there's chickens that are thrown in cages, okay? So I just decided to call the mural Chicken and Children Do Not Belong in Cages. But my main goal was that the children shouldn't be in cages. You should never do that to kids. So I did a black and white mural and I had the emotions of the children. I didn't show so much them in a cage because a lot of people are drawing children in cages and we get the point. What I was after was the solitary, the emotional level of these kids, the pain they were feeling Thank you. And that's what I went for. Then the second mural I did was called Politos y Coyotes. And we all know the story about that. And so I showed little children riding on the backs of coyotes and being taken here and there. It just makes me angry that someone can separate children like that. I mean, there has to be another way to solve this border problem. Okay, my third picture. Okay, I have to look. Okay, well, this was dedicated To the seven, the 14 children who were dead, who died while being locked up. I have an image of a woman. She's Mother Earth and her arms are outreach like this and behind her you would see 14 little angels you know floating and I have crosses here and there so you know I'm talking about death and as I'm speaking about that I'm getting chills I got the idea from another artist in Las Cruces she did the uh painting but she didn't finish it and they white it out so I said I want to borrow your idea and she says go ahead so I did I Picasso we still okay and then um there was another one I have a little fajita She's bending down, she's broken, and she has a big bag on her back and it can be full of apples, potatoes, cotton. And when I'm showing her, she's working real hard. She's, she's, just working real hard, and she's probably 40, but because of the type of work she's doing, she looks like she's 90. So anyway, she's bending down, and there's cactus, and there's a beautiful flower. She's going to touch this cactus because she knows in life, as old as she is, there's always beauty someplace. And then in this particular mural, I have my husband, our girl Vasquez, as a little boy way in the back, sitting there against a big bag of cotton because in life, in real life, he was a migrant worker also. So I put him in there. And then, let me know when you get tired. I got a lot of these. Oh, and then I did the La Llorona, the one, the story. I did it all on the wall, but not in the sequence that you have in your book, just the main glimpse of it. So we know that. And then my last story was called School Plays. And I have children sitting there outside and they're looking at a cross and they're going to their grandfather's graveyard. There's a little lizard there and it's like, oops. And then I have two little kids, the school play messing up. They don't know what they're saying. So I'm just trying to put the life of children, give them some respect. So you have seven or eight other brothers and sisters? I have three brothers and four

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sisters. Okay. Wow. So do you think that's where it came from? I

SPEAKER_00: 10:02

was raised in a housing project and it was always children all around. I enjoy growing kids because when I'm doing it, I feel like a big kid. I feel like I can see their minds. I can get into them and really feel what they're feeling. I don't think that part of me has ever changed when I was growing up. I mean, I know I'm a woman now and I still have the heart of a child. And I mean, I can be adult and be responsible, but I can let that playfulness come in. That's why I'm successful in a Because I let the kid's heart reside in me. And that opens me up for new experiences. That's very important for me as an artist. I kind of see myself, maybe, okay, I hope no one throws books at me or booze. But remember that movie, Amadeus? Mozart was that hysterical laugh. And the other man's looking at him. How could this guy play all this beautiful music and act like that? I know when to be serious. When you have it under control, you laugh.

SPEAKER_03: 10:57

I was wondering about how you came up with the technique. You're using the combination of all those different materials, gesso and chalk and paint and watercolor and drawing. How did that evolve? That

SPEAKER_00: 11:08

kind of evolved in high school. We used a lot of ink and I just got tired of just using plain ink. When I start doing artwork, I don't try to do a finished product when I'm exploring the technique. I'm interested in learning about the technique. The finished product will come and I wasn't ready for the finished product. So I was more or less exploring And then my technique with the wax and oils that I use, believe it or not, I went to Mexico and I saw Tamayo's work and he uses that industrial sand. I don't know that. I didn't want to go to the store and bring home a big bag of sand because I was living on top of a hill. I didn't have a car. I wasn't going to haul that. I was thinking I got to use something because I want that texture. And so I start reading about Dorland wax, which gives me layers of oodles and oodles of transparencies and makes sometimes you can make your paint and look like it's a wall. I play with a lot of things. And when I was going to school, a lot of the art teachers liked me because I wouldn't do finished products. Like I said, I was testing the technique, the material. How do you know to do a finished product if you never use the materials?

SPEAKER_03: 12:15

That's a good explanation of it, too, because you see it evolving in your work. It gets finer and finer, and the painting has more depth to the paint. And so what is about your fascination with monkeys?

SPEAKER_00: 12:31

Oh, well... I'm going to tell you guys something. You're all going to laugh. I always wanted to marry a great white hunter. I wanted to go to Africa. I wanted to live there. I was just fascinated by the African culture and the little monkeys. I like their little figures, how they move. You never know. Much like kids, you never know what they're going to do next. They're spontaneous and their structures. I like their structures. They're very human-like.

SPEAKER_03: 12:59

I heard you were talking about them and about the monkeys and you said you had gone down to Costa Rica.

SPEAKER_00: 13:03

They're real cute too. It's like you can draw them. They have a lot of human qualities, but it's not like drawing a person.

SPEAKER_03: 13:09

The combination of figures and monkeys and, you know, it's somewhat kind of reminiscent of Frida Kahlo when she had some monkeys in her, but they were larger. These are like little monos, you know, they're kind of just, they're all over the place. And I really love the way you do, but the way it really shows up in the, in the depths of the paint, you know, the transparency and the luminosity of the paint, it really works well with them. That's a great combination, man. So are you going to go for more education or keep painting?

SPEAKER_00: 13:39

I'm going to keep painting and I get my education by keep painting. Each time I paint, like most artists, you discover something new. And I don't want to keep doing the same thing because I want to keep, as I say, I want to keep my heart open so I can have new experiences. Some artists, I'm not knocking them. Some are comfortable staying in one genre. I don't want to do that because one time I had a show in East LA at the South Health Graphics, and I had my drawings and paintings there, and they didn't want my paintings. They said, looks like two different artists. I said, well, why would I want to paint the way I draw and vice versa? Two different materials. So that's, you know, the materials are different. They land for different kind of executions.

SPEAKER_04: 14:20

That provides an interesting segue. So you've talked a little bit about the inspiration behind your work, but would you talk about sort of because I find your drawings very different than your paintings and I imagine your drawings there's a direct line evolutionary line between the concrete drawings on the floor and your drawings as soon as I heard that about your upbringing and your drawing on the floor that That made sense to me instantly. So can you talk a little bit about the evolution of your work and how the drawings and the paintings intersect? And then I also have a question about your backgrounds. I find your backgrounds and your paintings just extraordinary. And I want to know whether... as you're thinking, as this painting's coming together for you in your head, are the backgrounds part of that initial process or is the initial figures first and then the backgrounds sort of fill in afterwards?

SPEAKER_00: 15:25

You wanna know why I did those drawings at the time I did them? Again, I was upset about the migrant kids in cages and I was comparing their lockdown to the pandemic. People are in their homes, they're complaining because they can't go to the store and get their cup of coffee and their ice cream. And some can't go to the gym. And these poor kids are thrown in a cage. And, you know, big deal, ice cream. I mean, it was just two complete opposite wants. And I just thought it was bizarre. So that's why I drew what I did. And... And of course the pandemic was horrible. It was like being in a cage, but we didn't have as bad as those children. Those children couldn't even get a sanitary napkin, the young girls. I mean, it was horrible. And then I learned, I went down to Fort Bliss to protest and I found out there were 5,000 children detained at Fort Bliss and they get the people there, like, you know, whoever's running the show, they get$175 per bed. So why in God's name would they want to find relatives and parents for these kids when they're collecting all that money?

SPEAKER_03: 16:39

You know, it's a thing that I've noticed is the Chicana painters, the women painters of this genre, are much more outraged by things that are happening like that than anybody else. And they immediately translate it into paintings. And I'm really affected by that. And they're the strongest reactions. And they're not afraid to, you know, have that be representative of their art, you know, because it's a real touchy world out there right now. But I mean, if we don't listen to our artists who are the avatars of the coming times, we're cutting ourselves short there. But it's really amazing that the women have the strongest reaction to any of the paintings and reaction to what's going on politically and culturally right now.

SPEAKER_00: 17:33

Because women give life and they see those not as only their child. All the children are their children. I paint children. I only had one son, but the only reason why I did is I needed to work. I needed to paint. I mean, if I had eight kids, I wouldn't paint and we wouldn't be having this conversation. but no as a woman you you give birth you give life and you do that with your art too and something's gonna disturb me I have a mouthpiece on me I'm surprised I still have all my teeth I made a I made a lot of people angry, but I'm still going to be me. And I'll just duck when he starts. I had a couple of those too. So everything I'm telling you and Jess too is part of my art. You know, if we just separate the art and say, well, I'm an artist. I go to school here. I learned this and then I follow this art. No, it's all life. Everything you experience comes onto that canvas. Goofy things, the mean things, all my loves, all of it's all in that canvas. is

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How was your relationship with all the other OG Chicano painters when you were at Mexicano Art Center or whatever? Was that good, bad, indifferent? Were you included, excluded? I remember John Valdez. Valdez.

SPEAKER_00: 18:49

When I first met him, he wanted to get a studio together. I thought that would be nice, but I cannot work with other artists. I'm too consuming. I consume the space. I don't mean I'm a, you know, show offering, but I like my space and I create my atmosphere. And so somebody's over there painting, it's going to either affect me or I'm going to, it just, I have to be total, uh, poodle, if that's the right word. I'm trying to learn Spanish too. No, but I met a lot of nice artists out there. Some of the artists that don't get any credit when they talk about Chicana artwork, you know, I get tired just hearing the, um, the four horsemen of the apocalypse. There's other artists like, uh, Manuel Cruz, who was a, A diamond in the rough. He was this older man. He had it rough, but he had good ideas. He had very good ideas about Chicano art. He just had a hard way of getting his point across. And then there was another artist, Joe Cervantes, who's like Van Gogh. You know, he's very, very good artist. And those two I remember most. And of course, there were artists coming in and out. I didn't meet Margarita Garcia. But I met Margaret through Facebook. That was, you know, a couple of years ago. But I met a lot of artists, Charles Amaras. And, you know, let's face it, a lot of artists have big eagles. That's fine. You need a big eagle to survive because if someone says boo to you, you're going to be crushed. Now, I don't care what people tell me. I had good training at home. My father, he was a mean person. And after him, nothing scared me except if you have a gun, you know, aimed at me. but they better pull the trigger and make it quick. I don't want to think about it. But other than that, I had good training from my father and upbringing. And I met a lot of good artists, a lot of, you know, great artists, good artists and crazy artists. And we're all there. We're all there trying to create something for this world. And there's plenty of space for us all except my studio. It has to be my own space. Todd, you got another question?

SPEAKER_04: 21:01

I'm interested in where your drawings and your paintings intersect for you. Because I think you made a statement earlier about the gallerist saying, you know, your drawings and your paintings look like two different painters. And I don't think they do, but I'm interested to know for you how they intersect.

SPEAKER_00: 21:22

The chalk drawings on the floor. As I got older, I started remembering the feelings I had with chalk. How you can blend stuff. So that led me to my... drawings with ink and chalk and gesso, mixed medium. And it was a combination of just working it, working it until something appeared, something felt good, until it worked. The question, I think you asked me, how did it come to be with my paintings? To me, they don't intersect because they're two different mediums. And I believe artists have many personalities. They don't want to admit it. As I say, when I'm drawing, I'm trying to get a different thing going. I want a different effect or effect. My paintings is completely different. It's a different medium. I'm going for softness in my paintings. My drawings are more for hitting you in the gut. They're They're more for anger or things that are happening in the world. Because I noticed that for myself, if I was painting these drawings that make me angry, I become my paintings. And I, you know, I really don't want to live in a world where I'm constantly fighting with everybody in life, you know, being like an activist. We need activists, but I couldn't live that kind of life because I'd be, why are you drinking that? Don't you know, in Africa, they're this and that. Why are you wearing this? You can't enjoy life, you know? So what I'm doing, my paintings, I want to show something beautiful, but yet if you keep looking, you're going to find a dark thing in there, something that's going to make you think. My paintings are for thinkers. They're not for people who just want pretty things over the couch. All intelligent people buy my work.

SPEAKER_03: 22:59

I find both your drawings and your paintings really beautiful and really distinctly different. Your paintings, it took me a little while longer to kind of get in depth with them because I didn't see a bunch of them at first. But then I started seeing more and more and I go, oh, I see how they're related. I see how that technique is working and that paint gets thicker and thinner. And there's a lot of layers in there that, you know, that painters discover for themselves. You know, I don't know how, you know, you discovered that, but I talked to a lot of painters and they always talk about layering, you know, until they get exactly the tone they want. It's almost like playing an instrument, you know, or a guitar or a violin. The only thing that's distinctive about a musician really is their tone, you know, what their tone sounds like. Because you can immediately hear a guitar player, oh, that's Carlos Santana, Keith Richards, and that's his tone. And you can immediately identify it. And I find that with your paintings now, the tone, what stands out for it to me. And it's also subtle at the same time. You know, and I always follow that. Wow, that's an interesting dynamic combination. You know, they're subtle and in your face at the same time. You know, you have to think about your images a lot, you know, because they look like, oh, OK, there's a woman with a monkey, you know, but it means so much more than that when you look at them, especially through the prism or the lens of that technique. You know, that's really what brings it to the fore. And now you have your own voice. So which do you prefer now? Do you prefer drawing or painting?

SPEAKER_00: 24:30

Both. Like right now, I painted a doll face a long time ago and I'm looking at it now. I said, oh, now I know what to do with it. That's the good thing about living with artwork. You'll see what you need to do. And then, of course, sometimes you destroy it by accident. You don't mean to, but that's how it is for me, art. I live with it. I live with it every day. I create every day and

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it's just part of

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my

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being. Do you prefer to work with men or women or a combination of both?

SPEAKER_00: 24:56

Combination of both. I worked with Judy Baca restoring murals. And we had 20 artists out there restoring. It was men and women. It was fun.

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Judy Baca and I went to high school together. Where are you living now?

SPEAKER_00: 25:09

I have a home here in Las Cruces, New Mexico. And I have three acres at the Hoopa Indian Reservation in Humboldt County. And my husband and I are thinking of going back there for a while. Really? Because I miss California. I was born and raised in the... General Hospital, one year after Margaret Garcia.

SPEAKER_03: 25:26

I know that hospital very well. So what do you want to go forward doing? What's the next thing that you want to do? I

SPEAKER_00: 25:34

want to get into more museum shows. It's good to have sales, okay? But it's even better when the public sees what you are doing. I'm getting a lot of good response on this museum show. I have people writing to me, calling me. I had some buyers here last week. at my studio and I get people writing and they're like so overwhelmed and I'm thinking oh I did this because you know you live with your art it's like a tap water you turn it on and off and you don't think anything of it but then when people come and tell you things whoa I did all this that's pretty good you know but I don't let it go to my head I'm very down to earth because as soon as you think you're way up there somebody kicks you Norma, do you have a question?

SPEAKER_02: 26:23

I kind of want to ask a question along the lines with the, you know, your kids in cages. I think that's one of my favorite thematic pieces that you have. And so I know you did some mixed media with the pieces and you focused on the detained migrant children, but also COVID and kind of tied those two together. And I feel like they're different from the paintings. And now I know why. And they're different from, I think, the older drawings, right? So I was just going to see if you could tell us more about the thematic work and the style. And I mean, did one inspire the other or, you know, did Las Cruces inspire that? I think it did. But, you know, I just want to know more about it. And you did

SPEAKER_00: 27:04

an excellent job at hanging, Norma. You did a Beautiful job. In fact, I'm going to say something now. I've been to other museum shows here in Las Cruces, but this is the best. I'm not talking so much about my work. It's how you presented it with the flowers and the colors. I mean, it's fun to walk into, not a tomb.

SPEAKER_03: 27:23

I saw you make flowers. I saw that video. Those are cool. They're beautiful. They were simple to make, but they were beautiful. The show was really well hung and it displayed the pieces very, very well. I was amazed at how much work you had produced in that period of time. It's a lot of work. Some painters work every day all the time and some painters take a longer time to get fewer pieces out. I'm particularly drawn to painters who paint all the time because you can see the progress I've

SPEAKER_00: 27:55

always been fast, though. Fast with everything. Sometimes people say, I spend 12 hours in my studio, and I tell them, what, you can't figure it out in four?

SPEAKER_03: 28:04

You did spend time in juvie, didn't you? I know it. Melissa, do you got a question?

SPEAKER_01: 28:11

Sure. Thanks, Cheech. Sonia, I love you. You just cracked me up. I'll never forget when you met Cheech and I down in San Diego at the Museum of Contemporary Art, and we had just opened the Popelchuk on a Dose show. What do you remember? Yeah,

SPEAKER_00: 28:27

I asked him, can we take a picture together? So we go over there and take a picture, but I told him, I just don't want to stand there, you know, shoulder to shoulder and look at the camera all straight and crazy. I was listening to a love song to each other. So we're singing these love songs. He's singing in Spanish and I'm just, and my husband's back there with the camera taking all these great shots. I mean, it was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_03: 28:48

It

SPEAKER_00: 28:49

was fun for

SPEAKER_03: 28:49

me. Some artists are very quiet and some artists are very quiet. Not quite, which is just fine, you know. So what do you think, here's an off-the-wall question because you talked about it a little bit before, about the balance of being shown in a museum and commerce. How does that balance work for you, being able to sell paintings and then being, you said it's really more significant for you to be in a museum because then everybody can see your work. Personally, what does it mean to you? I mean, you have to make a living as a painter, so you like to sell paintings How does that work for you?

SPEAKER_00: 29:26

Yes, I love to sell my work. But when you're having a museum show, to me, it's like you arrive. And the people come to look at your work, not worrying about sales. They're going to look at your work for art, for art's sake, whatever the art is. This is what makes, to me, civilization grow. Instead of just, you know, just selling all your work at galleries. Now I do that, but now I sell just straight from my studio.

SPEAKER_01: 29:49

That leads to a question from me, Sonia. How has being in the Cheech Marine collection affected your career?

SPEAKER_00: 29:55

Well, it has given me a lot of clout when you tell them, oh, Cheech Marine has my work. And oh, and all of a sudden people stand back and like the Wizard of Oz, how they say Oz. And I feel blessed and honored that you chose my work because what you're doing for the Chicano art is great. Nobody was doing that. In fact, in the beginning in the 70s, I met Chicano, a lot of the artists, They knew they weren't gonna be shown at the museums on the West side. They said, what the hell is it? We're not going to even do that. They stuck with themselves and got their own buildings. It was a good time. It was a lively time. The artists were coming together. And it was almost like the impressionists, the French artists back in the day, how they're all discovering formula paintings, you know, making the colors stand out, this and that, except for Van Gogh. He wanted to be so much in that. But anyway, I don't know. I see myself having a long life. You know, we can't predict when we're going to die or get horrible diseases. But so far, And it's, it's a nice feeling to know. Like I was telling Margaret the other day, I feel like we arrived. I told Margaret that because a lot of women artists, it seems as though a lot of them are now getting museum shows. We don't have to wait till we're 80 years old or 90, you know, like back in the olden days or be on a deathbed like poor Shreya when she finally got an art show. Gee, you know, but no, I feel very honored and privileged. And I want to thank you. It's a, it's a great thing you are doing.

SPEAKER_03: 31:20

No, I think, I think you're most, prosperous days are ahead because people will be now exposed. to your work. And that's the whole purpose of this. You can't love or hate Chicano art unless you see it.

SPEAKER_00: 31:32

Sometimes when you're working, you don't know exactly how it's going to turn out. You play with it and it speaks to you. And you say, oh, at first I was going to put yellow here, but you know what? Blue looks better. So for me, it's not a set thing. Unless I'm doing commercial art for somebody and they want a portrait, you got to make it look like them. Okay, everything's set. That's easy. You don't have to think. And it doesn't matter what you know about the artist when you're looking at the artwork. It's a now. And that's one thing I I like about museum work. It doesn't really

SPEAKER_03: 31:58

matter what they felt. You know, it matters what the viewer feels when he's looking at the painting. So it's that kind of, you can put titles on it and it's a nice clue and you can make up your own story about it. But I'm more concerned about the technique of it. You know, how did that paint arrive on the canvas or how did that chalk arrive on the piece of paper? And art is that the conversation, you know, and you get to have

SPEAKER_05: 32:24

the

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conversation as relevant in the conversation as the artist when you're standing in front of the painting, you know? And so, I mean, you can know a lot about their previous work, you know, about work in general, but it's a conversation. And it goes back and forth.

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Like when you go in a museum, I'll just say this when I was in Europe.

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You were in Europe?

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When I went there, okay, we know Picasso was dead and the other artists, a lot of them were dead. But when I was standing in front of this particular Picasso, I felt his spirit because he put it all in the canvas. So his marks, that was his mark when he was alive. And so that's the great thing about museum works. When you go there and even the artist is dead or gone, not even around you, their presence... are in that painting. And that's powerful. And that's what I like. And that's why I like museums. They get my more shows in museums so people can feel that power, whether I'm there yakking to them or not.

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I would have said that I think that paintings are alive and they're imbued with the energy, the creative energy of the artist. And they're still alive. And there's this low hum that comes off of them. And every time you pass them, you're being infected with that hum, whether you realize it or not, you know, because it takes, I don't know how many years for oil paintings to dry even you know and then that message is that that worked and because it because it involves a very simple technique it's it's hair on a on a stick and canvas you know and that takes a long time to settle in and then there's energy that comes off of those paintings they're alive there is a reason why people after hundreds of years come to museums to see them same paintings because they're still alive

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and you know what i noticed you can see ordinary work or mediocre work and looks great on the computer. You see it in person and then you see these great paintings on a computer and go, oh, I got to go see that. And when you see it in person, it's nothing like how it looked on the computer. It's so much better in person.

SPEAKER_03: 34:19

You have to see paintings in person. That's... I mean, that's my philosophy because, you know, because paint is such a medium that you have to see it in person because it's so deep and has so many subtleties in it that you can't get it off a two-dimensional. It's quantum physics. I mean, you can explain it that way. It has an effect in the real world and it causes things to move, you know. And every time you see a great, great painting, I mean, there's a reason that people line up 10 deep to see the Mona Lisa every single day of the year because it They're getting this buzz, this hum off it, you know, and it's like going to Lourdes or something. And, you know, there's a spiritual connection with it that is absolutely real. And even for that little painting, you know, that's amazing. But it doesn't matter how big it is. It's what's inside the frame that counts. We want to see your paintings come closer to California. So tell

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me, when are you coming

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to my art show? What's today? I'd love to go. I'm traveling right now. I want to see those paintings in person. So we'll have to set up another show for you to bring them.

SPEAKER_01: 35:27

You know, I was just looking, that was actually a question that someone had on there. It was for Norma, but really it's for this conversation. The question is, is Sonia's show in Las Cruces going to travel? And I personally am, I'm interested in seeing it myself and maybe we can find the right museum.

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But I would love for it

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to travel.

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I'll

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let you borrow the flowers. And you have some beautiful paintings behind you. I know there's a lot of a thirst for seeing your artwork. So I see this luscious, lovely new behind you and then I see the wonderful the children behind you as well those paintings it looks like a lot of your paintings lately are quite you're doing a lot larger work I mean the works that we have that Cheech has I think I want to say they're 18 by 24 I can't remember offhand but the drawings that you have which are still pretty good sized drawings and then the paintings the main painting in the show that you have is that four by four or five six by six it's a big

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painting I've got several large paintings and those are I call my museum pieces. I don't think anyone's going to buy them for their home, but I needed to do them. They're maybe five feet by 12 feet and five feet by seven feet. This is why I went out there and tackled those walls. I said, I need room. I need space. I want to do something more. I don't want to own it. You know, I just go out there and put the coating on it so no one messes it up. But I've always painted large since 1980 something.

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Oh, painters paint large. Chicanos in general paint large, which is good. Any other questions from the peanut gallery?

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There's one more question, and it was from Margaret Garcia, and she was asking, does your experience working as a single mother play a part in your concern for these children? And tell us about how you were able to get your schooling and how you had to work to pay your tuition. I

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knew I wanted to go to art school, and I'm in a housing project, right? And I knew there's no way in hell I'm going to get a scholarship because my academic grades are not that good. And I hated algebra. So that messed me up. As soon as today, I don't think I use algebra, but my husband thinks I do when I'm painting. So I held down two jobs. When I was going to high school, I held down a job. Morning, I was a PBX operator. Lunchtime, I was working a cafeteria. After school, I was a PBX operator. Okay, I graduated from high school. I got a job right away and went to junior college and I worked that night. Then after I got my AA degree in junior college, I held down two jobs, one in the daytime when at night. Now, by this time, you might have known I wasn't dating. Okay, there was no room for that. In fact, I didn't start dating until I was 21, which was good. I have my reasons. But anyway, so I just worked two jobs and I saved and saved and saved. And I got grants. I didn't get scholarships. I've known people with lesser talent who got scholarships, but because they had good academic grades, they were rewarded. Okay, so I remember I was applying for this scholarship, and it was between me and this... It was a Vicki Carr scholarship. It was between me and this other applicant. Well, I knew I wasn't going to get it because the applicant was a doctor. So... I said, well, I'm not getting it. So I didn't even try to ask for help. I just got a grant and I worked. And that's what I did. I worked everything I got. Nobody handed me a darn thing. They handed me advice and ridicule. But in fact, some people tell me you call yourself an artist. You can't even draw hands and you can't. And I was working at Michael's Ocean Foods one semester when I was going to art school. And the owner there told me to quit school and become one of his full time employees. And I'm thinking, I'm going to be flipping fish the rest of my life. It's crazy. You know, knucklehead, just trying to keep me down. You know, you little brown woman, stay in that kitchen. So anyway, how was him? So I don't listen to people. I have a dream and I'll listen to critical people. advise me if it's going to help me, but if you're just going to tear me down, I refuse to look in your mirror and see your reflection of me. That's not how I see me. So I don't, I have a tendency of getting off of the tangents. I talk, talk, talk, but no, I worked real hard and got myself through school. And here's a funny thing. When I went to art center, I went there and brought my portfolio. And, you know, you get accepted, you're happy, right? That didn't happen to me. I get there and say, oh, we can't accept you. I said, why? Your grades. I said, well, look at my art. Well, I'll tell you what, you'll be on probation. And one reason why I fought to get in was because I was bragging to all my friends in junior high. I'm going to art school. I'm going to art school because I already got my, you know, degree. AA degree and I told the lady that was looking at my portfolio I can't go back because you know the shame of it all you know going back to junior college so she told me well okay you can come you'll be in this school we'll accept you under one condition I said what's that you're on probation when I got in I was on probation but I got in so I went home and told my mother I got good news and bad news what do you want can never just go there and be happy I got in you know there's always something Always something.

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It was really a pleasure talking to you, Sonia. Really, I always have fun.

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Sonia, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your story today. I really appreciate it. Norma, what a pleasure it is to meet you and get to know you. I'm really looking forward to seeing your work as you continue your curating and stuff. You did a great show. I'm just really impressed with the installation, how you selected the works, your thoughtfulness in terms of how you worked with Sonia's work. I was just so excited because I learned so much more about Sonia's work because of just even observing from afar and then having these conversations with Sonia as well but it's just um Sonia you just blow me away I mean really the idea that you know you have these different ways of expressing yourself and you're always so creative and evolving and moving ahead and I really appreciate it thank you thank you thank you and to our audience please check out Sonia's work on our website www.soniafe.com that's s-o-n-y-a-f-e.com if you want to to learn more about the exhibition that's on view in New Mexico through July 24th, please visit www.lascruces.org slash 1542 slash museum hyphen of hyphen art. Now for show notes, links, artwork, images, reference in this program, you can visit www.causeconnect.net. That's my firm's website, but we will be posting all of that over to riversideartmuseum.org later this summer. They're getting a new website and we're going to be putting that on it. Insert Certainly you can learn more about the Cheech at www.thecheechcenter.org. This series is presented by Riverside Art Museum to support the Cheech. And it's made possible through the generous support of the Union Pacific Foundation. So we thank them. So adios. Thank you so much. This has really been a pleasure. Cheech, thank you for taking the time. Todd, thank you for working with me on this. Norma and Sonia Faye, keep on creating, girl. You are an inspiration. I'm always laughing hard. And keep your heart open. I really love that you said that. Why would you want to paint like you draw? I love that.

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Anybody that can possibly walk, fly or swim there, get there to see this show because it's really, really a great show.

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I like the word that you used, Cheech. It's buzzing. Like every time you walk through it, there's like this buzz. There's this energy. Bye bye, everybody.

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Thanks, Sonia.

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Thank you. Bye bye.

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We'll be right back. Subtitulado por Jnkoil