This is Melissa Richardson Banks. This is Mused LATU. And I am so excited today to have my friend who's a very talented artist and just an amazing person all around, Sandy Rodriguez.

Good morning, Melissa. So happy to be here with you and to have a chance to chat, catch up and talk

about the things of the world. Well, it makes me really happy because as I said, you're probably one of the most talented person I know in so many ways. I mean, there's so many talented people in my life and you're right up there in the cloud of the most talented and beautiful. Yeah, too kind, Ms. Melissa. have a joyous family and i really really just was so grateful that you became my friend and when we first met again i think there's a couple of a we kind of i think met in passing and then eventually we met more formally i think you and i were chatting the other day at lagma with another mutual friend who we loved armando h torres and i do want to acknowledge him because He was such a special person and we lost him, as you know, obviously several years ago. And he was very close to you. And I was lucky and privileged to work with him and also know him and love him. And we met at, do you remember where we met?

It was 2008. There was an exhibition at LACMA. There was one of those wonderful, hey, let's go to this event. And my mom, Armando, and I hopped in a car and went down to the L.A. County Museum of Art. where there was a stunning exhibition of Cheech's collection, and it was there that I was introduced formally to Melissa.

And that was such a special time, because that was actually like the last venue, if you will, of Cheech's very long-running and blockbuster show, Chicana Visions. And I remember that. It was... One of those things I know for him, he really wanted to be at LACMA. So it was kind of a joyous and a bittersweet because it really should have started in LA, but it ended in LA. But it started a new chapter because that's when I started working with him when I met you. And that was such a beautiful, beautiful experience. And I think what's really cool about that is that I think at that event, you gave me and you reminded me that you gave me, I think, a postcard of some of your work. Because I know that Armando used to have this great gallery called the Underground Gallery. And I think you had a show or there or somewhere else. But I remember seeing that and going, wow, this girl's really great in terms of artworks. Funny story is

LACMA had the first retrospective or the retrospective of one of the youngest artists here in L.A. or one of the youngest artists have a retrospective at LACMA was Gronk. And when I found out he was in his 30s when he had his first retrospective, I said, well, damn, I want my retrospective. So in joking with Armando, it became, well, let's do a little one. Let's do a little one at the Underground Gallery. And it was 2008. And again, this is happening simultaneously to the Chicano Painters of LA selections from the Cheech Marin Collection Exhibition. So my card for the exhibition was a self-portrait I had done in 1998. And I had been out of art school for a year. And having attended CalArts, There's a lot of adjusting to life in the world. And so I didn't paint for the first year out of art school. But the first painting I did was a self-portrait. And Melissa, you know the story behind the self-portrait, that it was a nudie self-portrait. And it was on a little piece of wood. I want to say it was maybe like... 15 by 15 inches that my mom had primed because my mom and I had always, you know, worked in the same studio when we lived in the same house. And so she had a piece of primed canvas or panel that she wasn't going to be using. I would work on it. And so it was beautifully painted in the background with this wonderful kind of turquoise-ish blue, very loose strokes. Anyway, I'd made this painting. I could not live with a naked self-portrait, so I put a clown face on it and a bathing suit. But when that goes to conservation and gets x-rayed, you will see two different paintings. I didn't even know that. Yeah. Well, long story short is I love the expression in that picture. Oh, yeah. And so that was the detail for the postcard for my exhibition at Armando Torres's space, Retrospectivita, which had its own blurb catalog, if you remember, a little square. Yeah. And so it was when I met you, I handed you a postcard. When I met Cheech, I handed him a postcard. And that's how the conversation started with a phone call from you. not too long after.

Yeah, actually, because at that time, we were looking at what to do next, because Cheech had, before my time, and shortly after he had launched the Chicano Visions national tour, I met him through Richard Duardo and started working with him on a legacy project, if you will. And later on, I just started partnering with other things. And I thought when he mentioned to me that he wanted to start doing other shows, I said, well, I can do that. You know, I manage and organize and market shows. I can do this. So he said, well, I really want to do a show of small paintings. And can you help me figure out, you know, what from our existing? I said, well, let's see if we can kind of broaden it too. And we had met you and you were on my radar and of course his as well. And I remember touching bases with you and you sent me that and another piece, but that piece in particular was, really resonated with him. And I love what you just shared, the story, because I don't remember this. I don't know that background about the story. I'm sure he doesn't either. But I love the fact that underneath, you know, it's about revealing oneself and exposing you are naked. And I love it. Aren't we all really underneath all of these clothings and these trappings that we have? That show went on to be in 16 different venues across about a decade. And I love that piece. But, you know, really, I think at that time, what I recall about your work is, is that you were doing a lot of work that I remember reading that you would just, I think Armando had in the catalog about how you captured moments of transformation in this social and kind of cultural landscape of Los Angeles. And I remember fire.

Fire paintings have been part of my body of work since I started painting. So while I'm raised in three generations of Mexican and Chicano painters, I I really hit panel or as it was illustration board in my first paintings with paint acrylic during the 1992 riots. And so in looking at the front page of the LA Times and in looking at a number of photo essays that were published in 1992, I was really drawn to the subject of these moments of rupture, not being able to articulate it at the time, but really understanding that it's in these moments of uprisings and in these moments of social unrest and in these moments of transformations of communities by both human and natural disaster that some of the most potent compositions on canvas have been created in the studio, wherever my studio has been. So if those were some of the first fire pictures at Armando's gallery, there was an exhibition called Burn Hollywood Burn. And it was in 2007, so a year before the retrospective ITA. And it was during a time period when Griffith Park had burned so many acres of one of the largest park in the city of Los Angeles. And so I had, I want to say like 20 different pictures of LA on fire from that series burned. along with the audio of helicopters coming in and out. And then I captured audio from YouTube videos. So there's people screaming, the fire is coming over the ledge, the fire is coming over the ledge. And the helicopter sounds and the siren sounds. So it was an immersive installation. More recently in 2018, so jump a full 10 years, Melissa, you'll remember when you came down to Vernon to Fine Arts Solutions to see The John Valadez exhibition I did, Rodriguez Valadez, in that exhibition, you saw really a transitional moment between large canvas depicting fires, our seasonal fall wildfires in Los Angeles, but really contextualizing them as omens of the coming disasters and human rights abuses at the border and throughout the communities in California. really thinking about how do I align these omens with these natural disasters as kind of the opening for the exhibition was something that I really put a lot of thought into. And it's really supported by a bit of research in some colonial primary sources known as the Florentine Codex. So there's this text that I've been studying for four years, but book 12 of this 12-volume book compendium of Mexico, like in the 16th century, book 12 outlines the conquest and it opens with 10 omens saying the Spaniards are going to arrive, the end of your world, as we know it is happening and a new world will emerge. But in those 10 omens, a number were fire. And so it was a perfect moment to really look back to this 500 year old text and situate the these massive blazes in the context of this world that we're living in. Wow.

And I'm so privileged that I was able to see that show because I remember that visual journey that you had in there. I was struck immediately when I walked into the gallery. I was expecting what you were known for, at least for me, the ones I had seen with the exception of El Paiso. I was really going, wow, this is where the fire, the fire paintings were there, but there was this journey. I remember being fascinated feeling that emotion because it was coming and being conveyed because you also had kind of an immersive experience and I remember going around the corner and going whoa and then seeing the works that you were starting to reveal from the codex it was a deepening and an expansion for me the progression of your work over the years it kind of took you From the literal fire, as I mentioned, and what's really relevant to what's happening today in so many ways across not only California, but our nation. And Melissa, I'll just, to

add to that moment of transition, I think it's important to note that you had been used to seeing so many of my Los Angeles landscapes, oil on canvas. I'm three generations oil painter, right? And it was during my 2014-2016 residency with Art and Practice, the foundation in Leimert Park that was founded by Mark Bradford, Eileen Harris Norton, and Alan DiCastro, that having 14 months in a residency allowed me to really spend time with my materials and the content in a way I hadn't had previously. When you live work in your own space, It's a little bit different than having a dedicated space to get in. Know that you have three hours to work because you just worked eight hours during the day before you have to go home, eat something and collapse. So you have this very focused kind of energy when you're working in residency. And it was then that I was working on oils on canvas. And I had planned for that residency, a bunch of views of South LA and moments of transformation. But we had taken a trip the prior fall to Oaxaca with my mom, my dad, my sister, her girlfriend. And in a little bookstore, I had picked up a bottle of cochinilla, which is that red pigment that comes from the scale insect that feeds on cactus. But this red, Melissa, is the most gorgeous red you've seen in any support fabric, in watercolor, in oil paint. So I had been painting these fire pictures of the Ayotzinapa protests at Art and Practice. And so this is 2014. And these are just big abstractions of fire with little details of the doors of the National Palace. So it's this moment of uprising over 43 disappeared and murdered college students. And so here was the moment when that light came on, that transformational transition point, where the material itself, this red that came from Oaxaca, that was an incredibly potent colorant that transformed the global art markets, can stand in for Latinidad and Mexicanidad. So the content, the form, and the material collapsed completely. for me and came together in this really beautiful and potent way. And that was the moment when I realized that every choice of material can inform in a very conceptual and material way the idea, which is when I made the shift from working completely on canvas and fabricated pre-made oil paint to really thinking about how do I tell these stories of transformation and resistance through materials that are specific to this region and specific to the history of painting in the Americas and specifically Mexican cultural heritage.

I love that you've talked about the visual of the red because you're talking about a medium that, you know, it's red is also red oil paint, but it's also, again, that's the red that you use now with this artistic medium that you're creating that is primarily water-based, if I recall. Yeah. But that's about the time that you really impacted me. So about in late 2013, an exhibition that was releasing my photography of downtown Los Angeles in the Arts District. And a lot of my work, as you know, has been described as very painterly. And friends like you who are beautiful painters, and I was privileged that you could see something in there as well, too, that was... I guess not valid, but something about it that might inspire you to have your own interpretation of some things that I was seeing. I think I mentioned to you that I had been approached to do a book of my work. And as I was getting close to the release of the book, you said to me to do a show. And you really made that happen by planting that idea and being such a great creative partner that ultimately you and I 40 other artists came on board and selected works that resonated with them. And we had really, I think it was a blockbuster show that hasn't been seen yet since then, but we had about a thousand people at the opening. And I wanted to buy your painting. I think they were already flown off the wall and gone at that point. So that was so wonderful. And I'll just say that where we also went from that was also, we had a show at Pershing Square and your work was selected as part of that called Amused. paintings of the Arts District and they were blown up to eight feet. And how was that experience? So maybe touch on that and then we can go on from that point of time.

It's been such a joy to know you and grow with you over the years and really seeing your photographic talents and energies grow. transform from your Instagram kind of persona and life into print and then into physical exhibitions was really a joy. And I'm really looking forward to seeing what more Melissa Richardson Banks has to offer because every time I turn around, you're just reinventing your approach to the world that we're living in and really sharing your gifts and your vision of communities. I

think I've told you over and over, but you really... have made a tremendous difference in my life and watching you journey. I

think that the past six months has been interesting in so many ways, devastating in so many ways. But in terms of my business, I left my career in museum education in 2016. I am four years into running my own business full time, running my own schedules and my publications, programs, talks, you name it. So it's been a real interesting moment to take everything that I do, which is so analog and transfer it to online. It's so in person and to transfer it. to this realm. One of the things that is really exciting at the moment is curating. And I don't curate, but every 10 years. And it's usually at the invitation of a cultural arts organization. And the last time it was for Day of the Dead, this time it's for Day of the Dead. I just mocked up the exhibition plan for the 47th annual Self-Help Graphics Dia de los Muertos festivity. And self-help is one of the oldest Latino cultural arts organizations in the nation. Thousands of our community come together in celebration of our ancestors in physical space, in a giant procession and at a cultural organization for a real in-person event. community event to celebrate our loved ones. So what we're having to do, like everyone else, is really think about what does that look like when we're trying to keep our elders in our community safe? When the Latino populations have been so dramatically hit by the coronavirus, how do we maintain kind of our traditions and articulate the importance of each element of this celebration, but do it online. So it's been a wonderful experience working with a stellar group over at Self Help Graphics and three generations of LA artists. So it's an incredible lineup and I will forward links to all of our information for you, but I'll tell you that we are changing the procession to a procession of lowriders. and that we are going to be doing a virtual exhibition. We'll also have some interpretive media for explaining each element of some of the altars, but really working with 17 of my favorite LA-based artists of three different generations has been a real joy and to see how the idea of an ofrenda or an offering for your loved ones, ancestors, and community, the overlap in themes and approaches. And some of these artists, Melissa, as you know, I might not have spoken to for 15 years.

Yeah, I get it. That's amazing that you have this... you're taking this journey because when you said the three generations, I mean, you are actually the product of three generations of artists. It's probably more generations. I don't know about your great grandparents.

Right. And so like it, it was an obvious choice to really think about the artists who paved the way, who I adore, who I love working with and the artists that are coming up right now and to place my 45 year old self in the center of in terms of the branch that goes up and down. I'm the connective tissue pulling this together. And so I'd like to invite you to take a look at that exhibition when it is available, but there's a lot of really beautiful and poetic interpretations of the idea of ofrenda, of altar worship, of the elements while understanding where they came from and how artists are conceptually playing with what that looks like.

Before we segue over to Moody, you did And I don't know if it was your first solo show with this, which was at the Riverside Art Museum, which of course is building or creating the Cheech Marin Center for Chicano Art and Culture. And that is where this beautiful catalog, which I'm so, see, I got one of the last ones. I know it's sold out. The Sandy Rodriguez Codex Rodriguez Mondragon. I think I said it right. Yay. And then I think you had a solo show after that as well. And so let's talk about this because I have a personal interest, obviously, because of Riverside Art Museum and the work that we've been doing with them as we move forward to opening the Cheech in fall of 2021. And I think also then we'll then we'll go to the Moody and because actually maybe we can reference here in the book where because I think there's a piece that's in here that's going to be on view here in Houston, which makes me super excited. Absolutely. And

I'll say that. So in 2018, well, you were at the show that I had with John Valadez, Rodriguez Valadez in Vernon. It was at that show that the curator from the Riverside Art Museum had done a walkthrough and had asked John for my contact information. And then I got a phone call and I got an email from Todd Wingate, who is just amazing. a wonderful, wonderful curator, absolutely great vision and just a joy to work with. So he invited me to show the entire series because we had a nice selection at the Rodriguez Valadez exhibition, but it wasn't the whole series. The whole series begun in, had begun in, 2017 and was part of the PST Pacific standard time, LA LA exhibition that Isabel Rojas Williams, a dear friend of ours, uh, curated at the loft at Liz. And it's so funny how things come full circle and intersections between this very small, but very large art community in the Western U S. So fast forward to 2017, Todd says, hey, Sandy, do you want to do a full museum exhibition of the Codex at Rodriguez-Montague? And I say, did you hesitate? Oh, hell no. I said, what I? You do well. Like, heck yeah, I'm in. Which is why I called you immediately. I was like, Melissa, oh my God, we're doing a full solo show of the series. It's only in its second year. I really want to do a catalog. You do such wonderful work and you've done such great catalogs. Help me, help me. And you were so generous with your time and really calmed me down, helped me out with the structure, really gave me all the support, sent me a few sample documents, held my hand. And it was from that day forward, I was like, I can do this. I can do a solo show with each solo show. I can do my publication, get my ISBN number and get that into major research libraries so that it is part of the assets of those libraries. When I was at Art in Practice, the artist who was right next door to me was an artist, but was also a gallerist. And he took his 14 months archiving work and exhibitions from his gallery from the 80s to like, it was like 20 years of his gallery. And he said, Sandy, whatever you do, and this is Dale Brockman Davis, Sandy, whatever you do, don't do what I did. And be sure you have a catalog for each show because facts, information, emails, all these things kind of float away. And unless you have the ephemera, available for researchers, it kind of falls apart. So yeah, I mean that, that show with Riverside art museum was really fantastic. I mean, that was the show that Carolina Miranda came over and did a four page show. feature in the LA Times. It was the front page of the Sunday calendar section, above and below the fold, full color. I was ricocheting off the walls when I saw that. And it was really a moment that allowed me to see that people were very excited about these materials and these conversations and these ways of presenting a contemporary and not so distant past of of this region. And it was in that show that you saw the Mapa de Los Angeles for the 35 Angelenos killed by law enforcement, which was actually a piece that was commissioned by the Los Angeles Municipal Art Gallery. So there was a curator there named Steven Wong who approached me at an art event and said, hey, I'm doing a show about L.A. I love what you've been doing about California and these larger maps of, uh, you know, the Western part of the U S and, and California. But I'm, I'm wondering what it might look like if you focus it in and investigate this place we call home, you know? And so it was for that show that I created this map of Los Angeles. And with each map throughout the series, as you go through the catalog, you'll see my handling of landscape and my handling of land and really changes from piece to piece. So the way I'm investigating landscape changes. So that is the piece that is opening very shortly. I guess it is September 16th, isn't it? It opens September 19th. And I just got the install shots sent over. Yeah. You know, there were little cheater shots. They're going to have real installation shots. They were just like, oh my God, it looks so good. Here's a cell phone picture, which of course had me jumping up and down like Woody Woodpecker.

Because it's going to be my first show to go see during COVID. Yeah. So I almost like bookending my year because the last show that I saw in a gallery was your show in Los Angeles, James Gallery. And the fact is that this weekend, I'll be able to go to the Moody Center for the Arts at Rice University to see your piece, which is featured as part of States of Mind Art in American Democracy. And I think this is a great time to, and by the way, it is open. It opens, I think, September 18th to the public. And then it goes on through December 19th of this year. But I'd like to have you talk a little bit about, again, here we go. We found, we, this is a journey. And here, you know, you're at this place. And again, this also for me, this literal journey, this Los Angeles to Houston. And here you are. And I get to see this. And there's so many people. So many wonderful, I guess, topics that come to mind because of what your map means in today's world and what this show will be about. So can you talk a little bit about the show and again, a little bit more about that? Oh, and by the way, I think you should also mention you're going to be talking, doing some conversations with the museum, with the Moody Center, I think also through the duration of the show too. Oh, yes.

We just did some... AV tests for some of our upcoming programs. So I'm going to be doing a luncheon and a talk with a number of constituents from the museum, and I'll be able to forward that information just as soon as I have those links. Also, speaking of Texas, which I love and I can't wait to get back there when it's safe for me to travel, I'm also going to be doing some conversations with the Amon Carter Museum of American Art in Fort Worth. So these are all coming up in the next few weeks. So I'll post this content onto my website. You can just click a link and add it to your calendars. But I'll tell you that my conversation with Jalenka Baroto over at the Moody Center started in April. And we had a number of really wonderful Zoom conversations, which For the first time in my life, it wasn't, let me fly out and meet you at the studio and take a look at things in person. It was, let's look at a slideshow together and share a screen, which is so different because as you've seen with this work, it's all about material. There's a power, a tactility to this hand-processed paper. The intensity of the colors is unlike what our eyes used to seeing with modern synthetic There is just a very strong impression when you see the objects in person. But our conversation started in April. We had gone through a number of objects and she had really wanted this one other piece. And so it became a number of different check-ins and conversations to really understand within the themes of what she's working on for the show. which piece would most beautifully impact kind of the overall feel of the room that my work was going to be in. That said, we finalized after much conversation on the map of Los Angeles. And that particular map that you'll see, and there'll also be a YouTube video that they're doing for interpretive media. So I recorded an entire artist talk for them. Real short, but essentially it's for the 35 Angelenos that were killed by law enforcement in 2018. So it's interesting to know that while I was working on that piece, which was the entire summer, and I'm actually putting together a PowerPoint, a behind the scenes, a making of, because we're the generation of the making of Thriller. And so I love these making of videos.

I love that. Oh my God, that's awesome. I can't wait to see

this. So because I have a 17-year background in museum education, I'm used to creating object files. I'm used to creating presentations on objects where you kind of get the behind the scenes and related documents and process things and related drawings and really kind of filling out a more robust story of the object. And so now when people ask me to do a focus talk on a piece that's on a show, I go through my photos and I'm like, oh, this was created between this month and this month of this year. And I drop a folder called the making of, and it's like 75 pictures. And then for my slideshow, I've got like what, six and 15 minutes to talk about it. So- It's a blast, and I'm actually going to be doing it this week, so I'll send you the link. But that particular map is painted in Maya blue, which is a blue that was synthesized in the third century by a group of artists that understood chemistry, foraging, and alchemy. Indigo, which is a potent blue colorant, was made permanent by fusing it with clay. at a specific temperature in the third century. So whenever you see those gorgeous vessels with that beautiful, light, clear blue that looks like the clearest ocean water, that Maya blue goes back to, again... And so you have this color that stands in for Mesoamerican civilization, that stands in for contemporary Central American communities, that is really just a wonderful blue and unlike any other blue. So that is the dominant color in the sky. The little yellow stars and constellations in that piece are done in pomegranate. foraged here in Koreatown in Los Angeles. And when you think of, oh, I'm going to get color from a pomegranate, you might picture red, right? Well, it's actually the tannins in the skin. So you have to let these pomegranates putrefy, completely dry out till they're rock hard, wrap it in a towel. I had a summer intern that year. So she's in the driveway with a hammer and a towel, cracking a dried pomegranate just to get the shells, just to get the skin. So the chemical compound is in the skin. And so we boiled it and you did a heat extraction and we didn't test the pH level on the water, but it yielded the most bright, amazing, almost, almost cadmium yellow, really, really shocking, which you can acidify or not acidify, but you can shift the color by adding mordants. So that's what the yellow in the stars are. There's also a comet. And in the goddesses, the comet appears a number of times, again, as an omen of the loss of life, of tragedy. And being in the Southwest, you know that the owl has great significance for life. a number of different communities, and it can be seen as an omen. So beneath the comet, you'll also see the owl. And this again is from the Florentine Codex. The comet is from the Codex Duran. But what you're looking at in this piece that you'll see at the Moody is a panorama of Los Angeles, including the transverse range. What gives Los Angeles a floristic diversity punch as we have is that the mountains go east-west. They don't go north-south, which are most ranges. So you end up with this incredible landscape and inhabitants. So you have the transverse range. You have all these elements. And then you have little snippets of... Details of cycles of state-sanctioned violence, including lynchings from the early 20th century in downtown, and then little red dots that signify where each resident and neighbor was shot down by law enforcement. It's important to note that I had finished the production of the map before it had to go to the exhibition by the fall. So not all 35 people are plotted on the map. By the time I did the public program talk at Barnstall in January, I was able to go back to the LA Times Homicide Report and fill in the rest of the names. So in the video that you'll be able to access on the Moody's YouTube channel, I read each person's name, their age, and what part of the city they took their last breath in. So it is very fitting for this moment of... the timing of the election, and then also the timing of getting ready to celebrate our loved ones for Day of the Dead, because the show does run September 19th to December 19th. So it's an ofrenda of a type.

I love that. And this is a perfect time for us to talk a little bit again about, and just first of all, thank you for being here today. I know you have Other things, we're right on time here. But I'm super excited that I'm going to be able to see this show and see this work as you just so eloquently described it here today. It's going to be, it's States of Mind, Art in American Democracy at the Moody Center for the Arts at Rice University. It opens September 18th, 2020 and is on view through December 19th, 2020. And of course, the wonderful work by my friend and talented artist, Sandy Rodriguez is part of the show. Sandy, if people wanted to find you on Instagram or on, as my mother would say, the interwebs, where would they find you today? So

you can follow me on Instagram at studio.sandyrodriguez and Studio Sandy Rodriguez on Facebook. But I am far more on Instagram than I am on Facebook. But certainly I would say to check out upcoming exhibitions, program talks. please see studiosandyrodriguez.com. I will also be making available catalogs from my last exhibition that you saw probably next quarter, just because there's so many wonderful things to do.

Well, I appreciate it so much. It's so great to hear your voice and especially during these times where we haven't seen each other in person. And it's just nice to see your face as well as we're taping this. We're also looking at each other on Zoom. So the podcast is audio, but it's just so nice. If you could see Sandy, I will tell you that she has this brilliance. She shines, she glows. And again, I'm honored to be her friend of someone with such talent. And I encourage you to look at her work and to, if you're here in Houston, please see the show. This is Melissa Richardson Banks. This is Mused, LA to you. And please join us on another time. Thank

you, Melissa, so much for

having me. Such a joy to see you.